Yank vs. 9/11

[V8 Sonoma GT]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

well i got the stall now... have electronic boost controller, aem one, kinda janky, but it works...

 

[killa66cam]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

unless you're going to run that 74, then I'd be all over it.

I may be trading that 74 for a 50 something, modded to a 60 something, and using the Phil Long tuned setup that I have.

cam your numbers are sound. except you forget the 1 sec loss for altitude.

I was working out the numbers based on 0966Sy's 1/8 mile times...which I would imagine come from Texas.

My BS3 was 1850 and I put it on the stockish Ty to practice and learn with it before using it to tune my built motor in the Sy. I look at it as an investment, I will never have to deal with changing the chip or dealing with the tune being reliable on a stock ECM. I would agree that my Ty should be in the high 12's, I'm working on it and haven't had the best track conditions my last two trips.

I won't disagree to say either that the same times could be accomplished with stock ECU. To me I couldn't justify having new technology vs dealing with spending nearly half the cost of the Big stuff on the old ECM.

Bottom line I don't think a 2800 stall will yield cam faster times. He has other ways to spend money and go faster rather than a TC. Now if he wants to upgrade the turbo/cam than he should consider a TC.

I think that I will start with very close to your build. If I want to change the TC before I step up to the next build, I can do that and see what the difference is. Thanks for all the info and help everybody.

Cam

 

[0966Sy]

If you already have a 20g why don't you use it and go as fast as you can with it. The 74 is a decent size turbo for a vortec/cam build. You already have it so why not hold on to it.

I tried a phil long chip and liked the WOT performance but the drivability sucked, way to rich idle and part throttle. I went BS3 and didn't look back! The stock intercooler with full flow lines and a Johnson pump does great when your moving, with higher boost 17-18psi it raises temps really fast at the track by the end of a run.

I'm making one more trip for a 12 and will go to a razor alky kit as my next mod. It will be much easier to tune for the alky with the BS3. More timing/boost I'm hoping will yield a 12.50 I remember using the first gen razor kit with a 50# ultimate chip. Wot was awesome, although drive ability sucked. I could not take out enough fuel to allow the room for the meth even with the progressive spray.

Nothing really to call a build in my Ty, just a 20g with l35 heads and 50# injectors.

 

[V8 Sonoma GT]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

Contact Mike at forge Motorsport in Florida. Be sure and tell him it's for a stock or 20g turbo. I would ask for a blue and red spring. Look up the thread in the GP forum, Jay has some detailed pics installed on a stock turbo. The springs have a sweet spot you will need to find to yield solid boost. To tight or to loose will yield spikes. When you get close, make half turn adjustments. Disconnect the stock solenoid and run straight to the actuator or use a electronic boost controller. Be ready for super fast spool! And solid boost control.

The results are night and day, no high stall required

i contacted forge. i will put this wg on and see if it works before i put the yank in....im sure that means ill be putting the yank in lol

 

[0966Sy]

So you have the 20g14cm that is spooling slow? What is your current boost control/ wastegate setup?

 

[V8 Sonoma GT]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

Not spooling at all lol.most times won't spool more than 2#. Stock wg, aem gauge/cntl. Works fine at sea level

 

[0966Sy]

When I used the stock wastegate I could not make more than 8psi straight to the gate, no solenoid. On my 20g. That is when I took off the gate and bench tested the spring pressure. It would open up at only 4psi, once it starts to open the exhaust is going to force it open even more preventing building boost. The 20g is nice because the forge gate bolts right up without having to elongate the holes like with the stock turbo.

 

[killa66cam]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

If you already have a 20g why don't you use it and go as fast as you can with it. The 74 is a decent size turbo for a vortec/cam build. You already have it so why not hold on to it.

I tried a phil long chip and liked the WOT performance but the drivability sucked, way to rich idle and part throttle. I went BS3 and didn't look back! The stock intercooler with full flow lines and a Johnson pump does great when your moving, with higher boost 17-18psi it raises temps really fast at the track by the end of a run.

I'm making one more trip for a 12 and will go to a razor alky kit as my next mod. It will be much easier to tune for the alky with the BS3. More timing/boost I'm hoping will yield a 12.50 I remember using the first gen razor kit with a 50# ultimate chip. Wot was awesome, although drive ability sucked. I could not take out enough fuel to allow the room for the meth even with the progressive spray.

Nothing really to call a build in my Ty, just a 20g with l35 heads and 50# injectors.

I am still debating on doing the trade. I would like to pick your brain more about the PT74 though, or rather the rest of the parts to go with it...since you seem to have plenty of knowledge, and are willing to answer. Vortec heads, stock or ported...or either? Cam, which one, or custom? Convertor, what stall? Injectors, how many #'s? Tuning, would a Turbo Tweak chip be able to handle this build? Built motor and trans, I would assume.

You have me a bit worried about the Phil Long stuff I just bought. I will be WOT some of the time, but not very often. I don't want it to suck driving it around the rest of the time.

Yours may be a more basic build, bolt-ons, but it still an improvement over stock...and you are making changes.

Cam

 

[0966Sy]

I ran two different Phil long 50# chips for stock cam/heads, both of them idled at 10.50-11.00afr. Another local truck I know of is running the same chip and his idles around 11.0-11.5afr. Might just be a early version that had some bugs, some of the early 50# ultimates idled rich as well. Wouldn't work for me, I need to pass smog tests. Reason I just opted for BS3. I was tired of looking for the right multi-chip. I know Bruce in Austin ran 10.40 in his Sy with a 75# Phil long/turbo time chip. His idled at 14.5afr.

I think spending 2k in port work on vortecs is a waist IMO. Money could be spent elsewhere. I chose a PT72 to run on my Sy with unported vortecs and a 415 cam. I haven't built the trans for it yet so I haven't decided what stall. I'm going to start tuning with lower boost on 60# injectors and work my way up. The turbo is not ball bearing or anything fancy but it will get me started. Do some thread searching and look what others are running with good times/ results. You should find a route for you when your ready to build a motor. For now do the best you can with what you got.

 

[killa66cam]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

I ran two different Phil long 50# chips for stock cam/heads, both of them idled at 10.50-11.00afr. Another local truck I know of is running the same chip and his idles around 11.0-11.5afr. Might just be a early version that had some bugs, some of the early 50# ultimates idled rich as well. Wouldn't work for me, I need to pass smog tests. Reason I just opted for BS3. I was tired of looking for the right multi-chip. I know Bruce in Austin ran 10.40 in his Sy with a 75# Phil long/turbo time chip. His idled at 14.5afr.

I think spending 2k in port work on vortecs is a waist IMO. Money could be spent elsewhere. I chose a PT72 to run on my Sy with unported vortecs and a 415 cam. I haven't built the trans for it yet so I haven't decided what stall. I'm going to start tuning with lower boost on 60# injectors and work my way up. The turbo is not ball bearing or anything fancy but it will get me started. Do some thread searching and look what others are running with good times/ results. You should find a route for you when your ready to build a motor. For now do the best you can with what you got.

I don't have to worry about passing any smog tests here. I just don't want to grenade my motor! What was the rest of Bruce in Austins build? How do you think that a Phil Long chip tuned for a 60 series turbo would do with a 70 series?

I definitely agree with you on not spending $2K in port work on Vortec heads. I have an older style PT74 journal bearing turbo. Would a 415 be a better cam choice than a 412, or 422? Is the stuff you have already in/on your Sy? Are you going to build your motor, or go with it stock first?

Cam

 

[tnsyty]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

So you have the 20g14cm that is spooling slow? What is your current boost control/ wastegate setup?

I have the same turbo. It will not spool up at all on a stock convertor on launch. I use an MBC and still no dice. It would hit hard when it did finally spool (up to 18psi) after a several feet rollout. I could floor it from a stop and it would take forever, but when it finally came on it would break the tires loose on certain road surfaces. Laggy!

On the 3,000 stall, it spools to 8-10 psi easily on launch. And spools good while rolling as well. I am still on the WG that came with the turbo and an MBC. I have been eyeing the forged WG for a while, but I have an EBC to try out first. I am still running the 50# and ultimate off of 0966sy's truck. It works pretty well.

 

[0966Sy]

Bruce was on a .040 over 4 bolt main stock block with ported vortecs and a custom cam for the Phil long chip for 75# injectors on a pte67. He was using a 3200 pi convertor which I believe was to much convertor IMO. His truck was also around 3200 with him in it I think. I don't know the specs on the cam but he called it a 414. Lol.

My build is not finished yet, I'm lacking BS3 and building a 60e to control with the BS3. I have a .030 over stock block four bolt main balanced and blue printed from Conrad racing engines. Stock vortec heads and I chose a 415 cam. I purchased a journal bearing pte72 kit from rpm. Going to start tuning with 60# injectors. Also having a custom TC built.

 

[0966Sy]

I'll snap a screen shot of a BS3 log on my Ty to show what rpm the turbo spools on the foot brake with the forge gate when I get a chance

 

[0966Sy]

Here is a screen shot building boost on a launch. 2100rpm at 0.0psi

Here is when I launch 2800 at 10psi, I usually leave between 8-10psi. And yes this is a stock motor with stock l35's and a 20g14cm with forge gate with blue spring on a stock TC.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

Stock TC?

That's the way to do it if you can. Just the WG then? How does it handle higher boost control? Can you snap some pics of the WG and the connection?

With the 10psi, does your TC totally lockup around then or could you spool even more boost? I am really interested as mine seems way loose.

Nice work

:tup:

 

[0966Sy]

Details with pics here.
http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=78765

I didn't mean to take this thread way off track, I'm just tired of hearing all the hype about having to use a 2800 stall TC to spool the 20g14cm. These motors do not have a high rpm range to begin with, taking advantage of the peak torque curve of our motors by selecting the right stall speed TC will yield the best results IMO. A stock cam/ stock turbo is a torque monster at 2000-3000rpm. Change the cam and it will raise the torque curve from what I've been told.

This wastegate alone has just woken up every truck I've installed one on. Fast spool and solid boost control. I've ran mine up to 18/19psi and holds very well. It stays up on shifts as well. Mike at forge told me these dual port gates respond very well to electronic controllers also. I don't plan on adding one to mine, I've set mine to 18psi, I've noticed when its hot out it will stay around 17 and when it's nice and cool air temps it will stay 18/19psi. I'm adding meth next month and will make a tune for it to use at the track to run 20+ with more timing. Can't wait!

Don't be afraid to ask mike at forge questions on how to set it up. He's very knowledgable in that department. And 200$ is a nice price.

 

[killa66cam]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

No worries on the thread getting off track some, not on my end at least. I appreciate any and all info, especially from people who are much more knowledgeable than myself.

Cam

 

[V8 Sonoma GT]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

I have been trying to get ahold of forge, no responces

 

[tnsyty]

Re: Yank vs. 9/11

Here is a screen shot building boost on a launch. 2100rpm at 0.0psi

Here is when I launch 2800 at 10psi, I usually leave between 8-10psi. And yes this is a stock motor with stock l35's and a 20g14cm with forge gate with blue spring on a stock TC.

How much boost did it build before the forged gate on the above setup? I never tried to stand on the brakes for too long. I see some guys at nationals who brake torque up a lot longer than I have ever even dreamed of doing.

 

[0966Sy]

It built maybe 6-8psi not very fast but not slow either with the 20g gate. I don't hold boost on the brake more than 4-5 seconds tops so I don't heat up the trans to much. That log I went from 0.0 to 10psi in two seconds, but I'm only about 30% tps

I haven't needed to call forge for a while now, every time I called some one always answered.