Tranny Guru's, internal modification question..

Since I got to rebuild the tranny this winter been doing alot of research on the 700 and modifying it for reliability but I wanted some feedback....
From the ATSG manual I know we should
1. grind 2 flat spots on the pressure regulator valve
2. discard the 3-4 load release springs
3. #44 hole in spacer plat drilled to .093'' done with mod #2(above)
4. install the orfice plug in revearse input piston
5. remove check ball/retainer in input shaft

Now modifications Ive found through research....
1. enlarge lube hole at Lockup valve for better lubrication of rear planetary during lockup
2. enlarge 3-4 release hole to .078'' quicker release of 3-4 clutches
3. enlarging 3rd clutch apply hole to .090''
4. enlarge drain back hole on pump body and pump cover/stator also prevents pump seal from blowing out under higher pressures??

I know to do the top 5 mods but what about the last 4 Ive found through my rerearch??? Ive also read that to make the 3/4 clutch pack last longer builders put the alto 9 clutch pack and enlarge the apply hole whick make the 3-4 pack engage faster. In addition, to make the tranny shift harder they change to a larger servo piston. When you want a 2-3 shift the 2-4 band must release(most rebuild with the larger width band), and the 3-4 clutch pack must engage. Since we made the 3-4 pack apply hole larger and the 2-4 band wider and slower to release, there becomes a bindup which cause slippage in both the 2-4 band and the 3-4 clutch pack during this shift. How do you fix this?? Let me know what you guys think and anything Im missing. Fern Sy#477
 
Jesse, Ive read through your tear apart of a tranny and its layed out beautifully, but why is there only half of it there and not the whole re and re?? Thanks man. Fern Sy#477
 

Hu Ryde

Donating Member
Time is the biggest concern. There are two of us doing the guide. George and I. George has a full time job and family and I am a full time College student. So that doesnt leave much time for SyTy's. Someday we will get arround to finish it. The guide is already like 30 some pages. I was thinking of making a book out of it when finished.

Here is some good stuff about mods: Some might be same as yours.

Install the Billet 2-4 Servo, It has 35% more apply surface as the Corvette servo. And the servo cushion spring is deleted for a harder 1-2 shift.

Put the .500 or .521 TV boost valve in. This is one of the biggest shift modifiers due to higher line pressure bias. More pressure means exact hard shifts without slippage. Less slippage means less wear and hard apply of the clutches and TCC lockup. This will help save the 3‑4 clutches on WOT shifts.

Put the hardened pump rings. These are needed when you start running high pressure from you pump. Use your stock springs in the pump if you are using a Syclone 4L60. They are the strongest available

A Fiber 2‑4 band with the anchor pin hole weld reinforced or weld a heavy washer to the anchor hole collar, and drill it out a bit for the pin if needed. Otherwise, the huge 2-4 Servo will rip it by hitting it so hard. Use the fiber 2-4 band if you are using a used reverse clutch drum. Only use a Kevlar band if you what to replace the reverse input clutch drum for a new one. A fiber band will conform to the used drum's grooves where a Kevlar one won't. They both give great apply when they are used properly.

You want Type F fluid for firmer shifts. You will have to change it every 5000-7500 miles though. Trick Shift friction modifiers aren't needed, Trick Shift is Type F dyed blue. Always supplement your fluids with LUBEGUARD. A Few people have had problems with Type F if they haven't rebuilt and used Scotch Brite on the valves to ensure valves are clean and free moving.

Grind the land down on the pressure regulator valve. Two helped, when in 4th gear and the TC unlocks while throttle position starts to drop, the planetary gears get starved for oil. This will increase the flow to the TC lockup clutch for better apply pressure and better flow out of the cooler lines. This will drop line pressure by about 50 lbs. but the bigger .500 or. 521 TV Boost valves more than compensates for this drop.

Planetaries are weak and expensive to replace, the other reason is that it makes noise sometimes when it passes by the valve. You can modify the sun gears to aid planetary lubrication buy cutting a slit in the gear surface that rides against the Torrington bearing, Cut a small slit in the edge 1/16" deep and then cut another slit 180 degrees (basically straight across on the same surface). Do this mod to both sun gears. If you do this modification, be sure to set your end clearance to .005 - .010." A #72 selective washer usually does the trick. This washer is included in the thrust washer kit. If you don't set end clearance to this range, the torrigton bearing may fail.

The TECKPAK Orifice cup plug reducer on the reverse input piston prevents that hesitance when going into reverse after it has sat for a couple of hours. It’s called TC drain back.

If you are bending the tangs on your 3-4 clutch apply ring due to high pressure, get a 3-4 clutch apply ring from a 96 and up 4L60E at your Local GM dealer if you don't already have the better apply ring. It will have a "7" stamped on it. Our trannys should already have them, most don't. This Apply Ring is the strongest available.

Make sure to machine and mic the pump and vanes if they need it for better tolerance and higher pressure. Check to make sure your faces are flat. Check this by using a straight edge and running it over the complete surface of the pump body and the stator body. Flat file it if it isn't flat.

Check the face for flatness. Do the same thing as the pump if it isn't truly flat.

Seal the 3-4 bleed hole on the input drum. They leak too much and it causes the 3-4 clutch pack to bum up sometimes. It's better to just weld, epoxy it shut. I use JB Weld. No more mysterious 3-4 clutch-pack burn‑ups.

Always use the solid Teflon seals on the stator shaft instead of the standard scarf cut seals. '93 4L60's and up should already use them so replace them with the same. The solid seals will hold up to the pressure better and allow for more consistent shift characteristics.

Scotch Brite all servo and accumulator bores.

When you have the reverse clutch drum out, look to see that the area the 2-4 band rides on is shiny and smooth. 400 grit sand paper will help this if needed. Adjust the band to 1/ 16" to 1/8" for the best clearance. Check this by assembling the servo and putting the cover on without the seal at first. Now press in on the cover and check the travel by measuring the clearance between the cover and the snap ring with a feeler gauge. Once you got it correctly pull it out and put on the seals and reassemble.

Get a Derale tranny pan. It offers the best cooling. Always concentrate on cooling. Better cooling means longer tranny life and better shifts.

Also go with an external STACKED PLATE tranny cooler. Larger (GVW) the better with fan.

If you are having problems with the 3-4 Shift at WOT don't let them write it off as a valve body so quickly. You may need different springs in your governor or the Fairbank's designed up shift sleeve that we should have already but inconsistencies at the factory might have deleted this option on accident. These sleeves are available from many companies for ~ $30.00

After you have your cooling taken care of, put in a remote tranny filter kit from SUMMIT. Model number SUM‑G4980. It only costs $26.69. This filter is better then the regular filter configuration and is used in addition. This kit also provides a nice threaded location for a Tranny temp sender for the gauge you should have.

You don't need to get a shift kit (if you have a Syclone or Typhoon) because our tranny comes with the stiffest springs available, many kits are even softer than our stock configuration. The modifications above are all that is needed for the strongest and crispest shifts possible. If you were building up a Corvette or lesser tranny and didn't want to take the time to piece meal one together, then a Trans Go shift kit might be a good alternative.

Also get a custom 2650-2900 stall lockup Torque Converter if you are running close to stock SyTy specs. You'll need to consider a different stall if you are either modified or a different automobile. The 9/11" lockup TC's are good.

If using Dextron 3, you can supplement your fluid with 30 weight motor oil at 20% total volume or 4:1 to help lube the seals. It won’t hurt the tranny. I use Synthetic with Lube guard additive exclusively. I suggest you use Mobil I Synthetic or equivalent. Type F sometimes sticks valves in a few VB's and there isn't anything you can do about it except revert back to Synths.

You will want to flip and block the 1-2 and the 3-4 accumulators. This is for firmer shifts in all gears due to no give in the accumulators via the piston springs. If you are using the .521 TV Boost valve, leave the 1-2 accumulator as is. Your 1-2 shift assembly needs a little give when using the high pressure of the .521 TV Boost Valve.

Delete 3-4 load release spring assemblies for better 2-3 shifts and better 3-4 clutch durability.

NOTE: If you have one of the TCS 9/11 Lock ups, you can delete the check ball and retainer for very positive lockups. It feels like a whole new gear hitting.

Drill the oil return line orifice out to 9/32 or 5/16 in both halves of the pump to ease oil pressure behind front pump seal.

TIPS

I have a tip on removing the pump easier. Use a pair of vise-grips and attach them to the stator shaft. Take a gear puller and index it on a penny on the end of the input shaft. Either you can use a couple of large washers that you would drop onto the shaft before attaching the vise-grips, which then you bring up to butt up against the Vise-grips or just attach the pulley puller jaws to the vise grips. As to start pulling just put a large screw driver into the inspection window (no need to remove the linkage) and lightly pry the reverse drum down. It will fall loose as the pump lifts out of the tranny. This works great and saves a lot of headache.

I found that most of the bushings can be removed by slitting them carefully w/ a Dremel tool w/ a small round bur chucked, then peel' em out w/ a screwdriver or just tap gently - just don't screw up the bore they go in. Hacksaw will work, too, if you're *real* careful. A bushing installer tool can be made from various bolts, washers & nuts; get a good selection from local hardware store. Some wood plugs to fit inside the bushings & center the bolt in the bore are easily made w/ a hole saw. The plugs are to prevent the bolt from cocking in the bore, as they readily do.

You can get it tanked but you still need to clean the solvent really good. I take it to the car wash and degrease it and blow out all the fluid. I then clean up the case with a wire brush until it's shiny and polish it up to a nice reflective smooth finish. I then go over it with Brake Kleen. That's what I use to do the final cleaning on parts before I put them in. Use about 9cans per tranny.
 

93ty475

Donating Member
Syclone#2960 said:
Jessie what happened to your rebuild guide?I cannot pull it up on your website.

things have changed....i'm pretty sure they took that info down...they do it for money now....you might get the info if they let you in to their new club...
 

Hu Ryde

Donating Member
93ty475 said:
Syclone#2960 said:
Jessie what happened to your rebuild guide?I cannot pull it up on your website.

things have changed....i'm pretty sure they took that info down...they do it for money now....you might get the info if they let you in to their new club...

Money changes people like you wouldn't believe around here. I'm sorry for the incomplete guide, it's the best we have, and all of it's efforts were free on our parts. I hope you can understand that when your time becomes so consumed with something like this project and your giving it away free you start to weigh it against everything else in your life and begin to wonder is this worth it? Then this is where the entrepreneur comes in. Many great business come from these types of situations and occasionally theres the rotten egg.

We will continue to provide the information free and maybe someday when we have time the guide might be complete. Until then, enjoy the info. It is free, it's been in the same place on the web for about 3 years now all you have to do is look for it.

http://www.syty.huryde.com/html/trans.htm for all the transmission information FREE

http://www.syty.huryde.com/html/trans/Tranny Rebuild.pdf for the incomplete guide FREE

Sorry for the lack of free stuff we have provided, I'll see if I can dedicate more of my free time to make it better.

What new club?
R.I.P. HHP
 

myclone

Donating Member
93ty475 said:
you might get the info if they let you in to their new club...

Couple of things....

First off you can thank a couple of the "trans gods" that are on HERE for the incomplete info. As was mentioned when doing something for FREE to help other ppl gets you threatened with legal action, bashed every time you open your mouth, and in general treated like a piece of shit then yeah you'd start charging for your services too.

Secondly, Im guessing "the club" youre talking about is the other board which is privately owned/operated and you are more than welcome to submit an application. If youre application was denied it was done so by poplular vote which means the majority of the members there didnt want you there.

Lastly, I could care less who I piss off in the grand scheme of things so if you have a problem with what Im telling you then tough shit. I was a first hand witness to the slime ball tactics that went down when the trans info page(s) was put up so do everyone a favor and get your facts straight before opening your pie hole.

Thank you and back to your regular thread.
 

93ty475

Donating Member
myclone said:
Secondly, Im guessing "the club" youre talking about is the other board which is privately owned/operated and you are more than welcome to submit an application. If youre application was denied it was done so by poplular vote which means the majority of the members there didnt want you there.

les told me about the club about the time he left syty's...great guy....said he wasn't wanted there...and I happen to like it here...

myclone said:
Lastly, I could care less who I piss off in the grand scheme of things so if you have a problem with what Im telling you then tough shit. I was a first hand witness to the slime ball tactics that went down when the trans info page(s) was put up so do everyone a favor and get your facts straight before opening your pie hole..

the slime ball tactics had nothing to do with me...and if they had something to do with you then too bad....and i don't know what "facts" you are referring to....i don't and won't build an auto tranny so the fact is that i could care less about using the info for my own personal gain...you crack me up with the "pie hole" comment :D you truly are a redneck!! :tup:
 

93ty475

Donating Member
Hu Ryde said:
Money changes people like you wouldn't believe around here. I'm sorry for the incomplete guide, it's the best we have, and all of it's efforts were free on our parts. I hope you can understand that when your time becomes so consumed with something like this project and your giving it away free you start to weigh it against everything else in your life and begin to wonder is this worth it? Then this is where the entrepreneur comes in. Many great business come from these types of situations and occasionally theres the rotten egg.

We will continue to provide the information free and maybe someday when we have time the guide might be complete. Until then, enjoy the info. It is free, it's been in the same place on the web for about 3 years now all you have to do is look for it.

http://www.syty.huryde.com/html/trans.htm for all the transmission information FREE

http://www.syty.huryde.com/html/trans/Tranny Rebuild.pdf for the incomplete guide FREE

Sorry for the lack of free stuff we have provided, I'll see if I can dedicate more of my free time to make it better.

What new club?
R.I.P. HHP

i totally understand...personally, i've thanked you here a couple or few times for hosting the public tech articles on your site....when i read bruce's post here, i thought maybe the tranny info had been pulled when the tranny's became a business...i personally never looked up the tranny info myself as tranny building intimidates me....
 

myclone

Donating Member
93ty475 said:
you truly are a redneck!! :tup:

Thank you, I aim to please. :tup:

BTW, it seemed to me that you were combining the other boards guidelines of member by approval only situation with the incomplete trans info which is not the case. Yes, the other board came about in part because of crap that happened over the trans issue(s) but by no means was it the main/only reason for its creation.

However, on the other hand the incomplete trans rebuild info site can be credited to the crap that went on, for the most part.

Now, where the hell did I put those monster truck tickets.......
 

Syclone#2960

What ever it takes!!
I got a build list from a loacal transmission guy.Here are some of the parts he is going to use.

Transgo 700 2-3
Unbreakable pump rings
Hi rev slide springs
extra wide kevlar band
Z pack 3-4 clutches
corvette servo
teflon pump bushing

Is this the good stuff to use? :oops:
________
MEDICAL DISPENSARIES IN THE INLAD EMPIRE
 
Last edited:

Wes

Donating Member
You already have the corvette servo.

Syclone#2960 said:
I got a build list from a loacal transmission guy.Here are some of the parts he is going to use.

Transgo 700 2-3
Unbreakable pump rings
Hi rev slide springs
extra wide kevlar band
Z pack 3-4 clutches
corvette servo
teflon pump bushing

Is this the good stuff to use? :oops:
 
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