B
Blake
Guest
.
jwaller
Evil Genius/SyTy Guru
ok so I count 15 plates and they all are 1 sided friction and 1 side steel? so u have 15 sides of friction and 17 steel faces (counting the apply rings top and bottom). and with the conventional setup u have 14 sides of friction and 16 steel. seems as if u have slightly more surface area for friction material but far less metal to act as a sink for pulling the heat away from the clutch material. or maybe bc it's bonded to the back it's supposed to work better.
why is the 1 different from all the rest?
might work. keep us posted on how it works.
if your interested you can watch the promo video here.
http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/content/mov/raybestos_med.wmv
pdf of the raybestos release.
http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/content/pdf/press_release_pdfs/Z_Pak_Press_Release.pdf
all it says is better than oe. I certinly hope so...
why is the 1 different from all the rest?
might work. keep us posted on how it works.
if your interested you can watch the promo video here.
http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/content/mov/raybestos_med.wmv
pdf of the raybestos release.
http://www.raybestospowertrain.com/content/pdf/press_release_pdfs/Z_Pak_Press_Release.pdf
all it says is better than oe. I certinly hope so...
B
Blake
Guest
.
B
Blake
Guest
.
B
Blake
Guest
.
jwaller
Evil Genius/SyTy Guru
John,
The major benefit of the single sided Z-Pak is the ability to increase
capacity through multiple single sided plates and provide an even apply.
The X-32 material is very thermally stable and the friction levels are
higher than typical high energy friction plates. The Z-Pak can be used and
has successfully run in some high power applications. The target
applications are fleet, heavy duty, 4x4 and performance vehicles.
Total active facings is 14 (same number of facings as 7 traditional double
sided plates), but the ability to dissipate heat is much greater than in a
double sided pack.
Regarding clearance, we recommend 0.050 - 0.070. When the pack is run at clearances below 0.050, a clutch pack will likely burn because of drag within the pack. For example, if the trans is behind a higher reving
engine, fluid centrifuges to the outside of the 3-4 bore during 1st and 2nd
gear and causes it to drag. This drag causes more damage than an apply
under full power, and it increases power losses through the trans itself
until third gear.
In double sided clutch packs, we recommend standard steel plates, and in
most cases, the thicker the steel the better. In a single sided clutch
pack, heat is transferred upward through the pack since all plates have a
friction side and a reaction side plus all steel in the pack is being used
to dissipate heat. In contrast, a traditional double sided pack uses cores
with friction material on both sides against reaction plates. In this case,
heat is put into to the reaction plates from both sides, requiring the
reaction plate to dissipate the heat. In single sided, we are using all of
the steel to dissipate heat plus the heat transfers up through the pack from
plate to plate.
Also the aftermarket Kolene will have a greater effect on friction material
wear than a standard steel finish. Without going into detail, the
aftermarket Kolene IS differnet than the coating used by the OEMs.
Please let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks again for your
inquiry.
Chris Horbach
Product Application Engineer
Raybestos Powertrain
964 E Market St.
Crawfordsville, IN 47933
800-729-7763 x113
765-364-4577
chorbach@raybestospowertrain.com
The major benefit of the single sided Z-Pak is the ability to increase
capacity through multiple single sided plates and provide an even apply.
The X-32 material is very thermally stable and the friction levels are
higher than typical high energy friction plates. The Z-Pak can be used and
has successfully run in some high power applications. The target
applications are fleet, heavy duty, 4x4 and performance vehicles.
Total active facings is 14 (same number of facings as 7 traditional double
sided plates), but the ability to dissipate heat is much greater than in a
double sided pack.
Regarding clearance, we recommend 0.050 - 0.070. When the pack is run at clearances below 0.050, a clutch pack will likely burn because of drag within the pack. For example, if the trans is behind a higher reving
engine, fluid centrifuges to the outside of the 3-4 bore during 1st and 2nd
gear and causes it to drag. This drag causes more damage than an apply
under full power, and it increases power losses through the trans itself
until third gear.
In double sided clutch packs, we recommend standard steel plates, and in
most cases, the thicker the steel the better. In a single sided clutch
pack, heat is transferred upward through the pack since all plates have a
friction side and a reaction side plus all steel in the pack is being used
to dissipate heat. In contrast, a traditional double sided pack uses cores
with friction material on both sides against reaction plates. In this case,
heat is put into to the reaction plates from both sides, requiring the
reaction plate to dissipate the heat. In single sided, we are using all of
the steel to dissipate heat plus the heat transfers up through the pack from
plate to plate.
Also the aftermarket Kolene will have a greater effect on friction material
wear than a standard steel finish. Without going into detail, the
aftermarket Kolene IS differnet than the coating used by the OEMs.
Please let me know if you have any further questions. Thanks again for your
inquiry.
Chris Horbach
Product Application Engineer
Raybestos Powertrain
964 E Market St.
Crawfordsville, IN 47933
800-729-7763 x113
765-364-4577
chorbach@raybestospowertrain.com
if you install 11 frictions in the 3/4 pack you have 22 friction areas,so what is the benefit of the z pack?imo there is none.the blue plate friction as tested by us in a vehicle and not some big buck machine has proven to be an underachiever.blue plates in extra count clutch packs increase the slip time between the drive and driven members of the clutch pack increasing apply time and heat generated during application resulting in scorched steels and a downhill spiral to eventual clutch failure.red paper frictions such as those available through alto are a much better choice and wont cause steel scorching even with non treated 3/4 steels.the only use for a blue plate imo is in a clutch pack that doesnt carry an upshift torque load such as the forwards and even then i would still question their superiority over a plain or hp paper based friction.and for your information i tested these products for raybestos 2 years ago from frank slocum at raybestos powertrain and did tell him what i found.as a matter of fact he paid me a visit last year when in the nyc area to see my planetaries and experimental 2.48 first gear 700r4 as well as other items.ask him.
B
Blake
Guest
.
we accomplish this without machining anything.you would be very surprised how we do it with all factory parts and 11 alto commercial frictions and 10 thin steels.the blue plate is a loser in all applications as tested by us.especialy in multiple count clutch packs.if you got time to keep pulling out the transmission use the blues or stick with a combination we already did the research on and perfected with in car testing ,not a machine.this is no ego trip here either just the plain truth.the clutch pack accumulation time in a 700r4 is limited by amongst other things the square inch apply area at the piston the clutch oil pushes on .ie:200 psi at 3 square inches equals 600 psi clamping force.clutch apply slip rate is directly related to this and various friction and steel combinations respond accordingly and specifically to this.heat dissipitation is quicker in this clutch pack during clutch application because the 3/4 pack is already accellerating with the input shaft in 1st and 2nd gears reducing the amount of heat generated on a ratio change as that associated with other gm models that must accellerate a stationary clutch drum from a dead stop in second gear to input shaft speed on a 2/3 ratio change.