Billet Servo

[Alden]

On a tranny related note.. can the 2-4 servo be changed with the tranny in the truck? Can any help w/ instructions on how to do w/ basic tools and how to set for proper clearance or whatever is required.
Check out http://www.bulkparts.com they have the superior tranny big billet servo for $65 and the .500 TV boost vavle for $10

Thanks

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: syborg on 2002-03-20 09:17 ]</font>

 

[jwaller]

yes you can change the servo with the trans in the truck but its a real Pain in my ass. it has to be installed piece by piece.

 

[Hu Ryde]

I have heard that it can be done with the tranny installed. It will be a pain to get the clearances right though. Get this setup.

it's awesome. I just rebuilt my tranny and used it. I also used a .5 boost valve. Not Bulkpart's but TCI's 25 bucks. I got alot of my stuff from bulkparts and the raptor site. If you are buying a TV Boost I would recomend getting both Forward and reverse from sonnax. I think they are the best money can buy. If you have any questions let me know. I just went through it all and my tranny is perfect!

 

[Brian Hartman]

Well, I would not go with the Sonnax TV boost valve and reverse boost valve. Not to knock Jesse's opinion though you can only comment on what you have experience with and he's had a good experience with them....well at least for the 1st week :smile: <Just playing with you bro> No but seriously, It is more of a gimmick that will only help a very small percentage of the people the "O" ring is supposed to help. Those "O" rings shrink and get hot. Those "O" ring wear out pretty fast. These are FAR from being the best valves out there. They are pretty tiny as well. If you have them build good AMERICAN metal, you don't even have to consider an "O" ring. It's kind of funny. You get a couple of high performance transmission people together, that honestly know their stuff inside and out, and the subject of Sonnax comes up, they are always getting made fun of by some comment about if you can put an "O" ring on something, Sonnax will do it. "O" ring sluts. :smile:

If you truly want the best valves made, give me a shout. They are made with exact tolerances and made of great metal and then treated to last a lot longer than your vehicle’s life will be. They are a bit more expensive but you get what you pay for and these things are huge!!!

All of my parts are the best that are made or better because they are custom made to handle a lot more power than the stuff you can buy of the web. Cheap parts are made in Asian countries and their quality is a little suspect. Sometimes a supplier will change their manufacturers of parts without telling you and you'll see that all of a sudden the once nice part is now crap, but looks the same from 10 paces. This type of thing accounts for a lot of failures in high performance applications, but the market isn't dictated by performance, it dictated by volume and most transmissions aren't performance related at all. Basically you have to have a lot of stuff modified or redesigned and then manufactured which costs an arm and a leg but if you truly want the best, this is the way you have to go.

Well enough of my warnings. Give me a shout if you are needing the best parts money can buy and more importantly, how to build the tranny the best way possible. I'm not a big warehouse that pimps out whatever they can get their hands on and try cutting the legs out from underneath the truly professional builders that have pride in doing the best. A warehouse can careless what you do with the parts and care even less if you are happy with them or if they even worked or were correct for your application. Heck they don't even know what a Syclone or Typhoon is let alone what you have to do to make these truck's trannies scream.

Remember to support the list vendors that care enough about these trucks to dedicate their lives to these trucks when NO one else even cares. Hey, if we don't stick together, they will find a more profitable and larger market where volume is king and quality is the least of their concerns. I know several SyTy vendors that are looking to pack it in and head to a market that supports them, because they are really only here to support us and our trucks and make a living or a little extra cash for their efforts. It isn't easy in a small community like ours. The community vendors are a lot more accountable as well. Yeah, you hear about screw-ups but if treated the proper way, I don't believe any of the current community vendors are looking to be unscrupulous. You can't mess up otherwise you are gone. I remember about around the first national get together in '98, our list was tight and we were a loyal group but since then, man things have changed for the worst. The best people just left or just hideout now because of the air and mood of the members. I don't know if it is because a lot more people have access to the group now that it is ULTRA low effort instead of the truly hard core that actually made a lot of effort to even find the community let alone being a quality member that knew the value of loyalty and support. Heck, look at all the crap these big companies have and how they treat you if you have a genuine problem or are unhappy. Strange how they are nice when you bought the parts. Next time you buy outside of the family, ask that vendor if they even have an interest in these little enigmatic trucks...then ask how long they have had theirs :smile: Ha!


This time I will actually get off the soap box too. :smile: Take care everybody and treat people like you would want anyone to treat someone you really care about. <just in case you are a Martyr> :wink:

 

[Blake]

The "O" rings help make up for variances in the ALUMINUM of the pump bore.
Not for variances in the valve sleeve itself. The rubber shouldn't "shrink"
any more than the rubber used for the seals in the rest of the tranny. The
sleeve isn't supposed to move. So it's not like the rubber will wear out
from friction. The flats around the rubber are still the same width as the
flats on the stock valve sleeve which fit into the bore of the pump(I've run
a micrometer over them, I know). This rubber seal cannot blow out. The only
way I can imagine it failing is if you overheat the tranny enough to melt
things. If you do that then the TV valve is the least of your worries. The
Sonnax valves are also hardened. If they weren't, the valve would wear out
the sleeve in short order.

I know you like what you sell of course. Just thought I would share what I
have learned from my experiences, unfortunate as they may be, and what I
have learned talking to local shops, some with over 30 years of real
experience(not that combined crap).

"Where" steel is made is more a question of salesmanship. The hardened
stator I bought from Brian was made in Taiwan. Said so right on the box it
came in. Doesn't mean it is a piece of crap by no means. It is a good solid
stator. As long as the TV or reverse boost valve is hardened so the valve
and the sleeve don't wear each other out prematurely is all that matters as
far as that is concerned. Proper MACHINING is the key. It doesn't matter
where it is made or how hard it is if the valve consistently hangs in the
sleeve. Or if the sleeve as to be crammed into the bore of the pump. I've
also experienced these. You don't want to have to cram anything. It should
fit. Make sure you scotchbrite them. It will make a difference.
>
> If you truly want the best valves made, give me a shout. They are made
> with exact tolerances and made of great metal and then treated to last a
> lot longer than your vehicle's life will be. They are a bit more
> expensive but you get what you pay for and these things are huge!!!

The one I got in my stage IV kit was only a .500 same size as the one in
Jesse's. I know, I watched him put it in. A .521 would have probably been
more appropriate for what I wanted and bought but "people in hell want ice
water" too.
Treatment of customers is also a key. Brian and I have discussed this at
length unfortunately. How much money you spend isn't always an indicator
that you did it correctly. I know.

Brian sells some good stuff. Just be careful what you buy, no matter who it
is from, and make sure it is what you need for what your goals truely are.
It is really easy to go overkill. Or at least think you are going overkill
and end up biting yourself in the ass.
All this stuff is my opinion only. I'm no tranny guru by no stretch. Just
trying to apply some common sense and my experience(however little it may
be) to some of this stuff. Hopefully it will help some others.

Jesse's turned out great. He did a really good job. Especially sharing his
experience with others. Good and bad. If everything was perfect and easy,
everyone would be doing this stuff. I'm off to take the transmission back
out of my truck now. The thing that really sucks, I did the same
thing to mine that we did to his. How frustrating can this be? I'll tell you
after I tear another friggen tranny out. Going to go for the Chi Town
record!!! See if I can get it out in less than two hours!! New Nationals
Event?? Ripping out trannies? I'm there!

Blake

PS: If you order anything from anybody, make sure that all of it is there.
Really sucks when you have everything torn apart and all of stuff that you
thought was supposed to be there wasn't and for heaven's sake, compare the
new stuff to your old stuff. I'm still having problems but I caught one with
the valve body and case gaskets just before bolting the valve body on. I had
5 holes total that were blocked by the gaskets in my kit. One of them being
a check ball. My Ty is a 93 so it had a different check ball layout than the
'87-up kit covered. Be cautious NO MATTER WHO YOU BUY FROM. Don't assume
anything.
(Falling off my drunken soap box now) Hehehe!!

 

[Blake]

Syborg,
To answer your question. Get the two parts that Jesse recommended. Pop the metal ring out of housing around the servo cover(it will be a pain in the ass). Spray it with PB Blast and let it sit for a day or two. Mine was really rusted. When the cover pops out a little, take needle nose plyers and grab the blue o-ring and pull it sideways until it rips, then grab one end and pull it out. The cover will rotate with it. Be careful, the cover may fall out. The instruction on how to assemble the servo are kinda confusing. If you want, I can email you a scanned copy of the modified instructions to install these two items together.

When setting your clearance, leave all the seals off. ALL of them. Don't put the red spring in yet. Grind enough of the end of the apply pin off until you can get the snap ring to engage in the groove in the bore. It should seat all the way. Not sitting on the edge of the lip or anything like that. Now, lay a ruler across the highest flats of the bore on the outside of the case(there are two square notches, don't put it down in those), and take another ruler and push on the cover. Look to see how much you can move it in relation to the ruler that you laid across the flats I talked about earlier. It should move 1/8" to a 1/16" when it is right. Closer to a 1/16" the better.

Now pull it out, put all of the seals on, LUBRICATE THE SEALS WITH PETROLEUM JELLY as well as on the inside of the cylinder bore, put the red spring over the apply pin and stick it to the servo piston with some petroleum jelly so it doesn't fall around while you install everything. You will have to push HARD. I mean hard. The seals are tight and the spring is tough. You will feel the seals kinda "pop slide" into place. Put your retainer ring back in while pushing hard.

Some things that helped. Clean the retainer ring and the groove in the bore with scotchbrite to get all the rust and salt/crud out of it.

When you are doing your fitment:
Install the retaining ring so one of the ends is CLOSE to one of those square cutouts in the servo bore opening. Makes it sooooo much easier to get in and out! Wish I had know this on the first couple fitments on Jesses's!!
Hope this helps!
Let me know if you want the destructions.
George Blake

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blake on 2002-03-21 11:25 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Blake on 2002-03-21 11:26 ]</font>

 

[Hu Ryde]

Go to the site yourself and choose upon facts. Opinions help but there is nothing like cold hard factual information. http://www.powerglide.com/parts/parts/77917-500.htm If anyone want's a complete list of what mods and part's I used in my tranny let me know by E-mail. I have all of it on disk, including pics of complete rebuild. Also Brian, it's made by people like you and I, Americans in the USA!

 

[Brian Hartman]

Facts? What facts? That is a sales brochure. How about something even better. EXPERIENCE and a lot of it. IF O rings were so great, why isn't everyone doing it? It is even easier to do since your tolerance doesn't even have to be near as close, i.e. ALOT cheaper to make. I didn't say they weren't American, I was saying you have to watch out for it. It's a GIMMICK! IF it was so great, heck shops would put every valve on a lathe and put an O-Ring on it. It isn't difficult to do but you will not see anyone do it. Hmmmmm, I wonder why? It's not like you would be in patent violation or anything. Jesse, you have done one tranny, and now you are an expert at what is good and what is not? Honestly? Come on, I was on the phone with you for over an hour telling you more information than you'll accumulate in years. I ask you this, If you really know want you are talking about and your opinion is so solid, then why did you choose to go with a 13 vein pump? :smile: I not trying to rag on you bro but you just have to know what you know and learn what you don't. Sales literature is one thing, the real world is another. You don't think that at first I didn't think those valves were bad a$$ besides the fact they are tiny little valves? I thought so too until I tried them and talked to the best in the industry, not just Joe Shmoe at the local "performance" shop. Those are the facts, at least the ones that truly matter. Build your valves correctly with the best metal, and with the best design and treatment and you will not have to use a Band-aid like an O-ring. That thing is a joke.

 

[4C FED]

[BOLD]Grabs Nomex Flame Suit[/BOLD]

I bought that Freakin' 13 vane pump also (before I asked anyone about it), then, 2 other people, who's opinion I respect, along with Hartman (I respect him too) said "Don't do use it."

The point is, what you read (sales brochure) is very one-sided. It's a monologue.
They tell you ALL of the supposed benefits, without (of course) any drawbacks.

When you talk (I said TALK) to these guys that have a lot of experience, you get the added benefit of asking why I shouldn't use a product instead of just why I should use it.

I was going to do my own tranny also. But after I had talked with the eventual builder of mine, I realized there was a lot more to it than what I could read in a book and decided I was in over my head.

Oh, and I DIDN'T use the 13 vane pump.
Anyone want to buy it?

_________________

Rick
Sy#458
Galt, CA

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: 4C FED on 2002-03-21 16:58 ]</font>

 

[Brian Hartman]

Hey bro,

You are right, there is a lot more to what is written. I always tell people that buy from me to use me as much as they want. Call me and I'll tell them everything they need to know. I doubt it was really over your head though. It's easy to get intimidated by it but, if you just plow ahead slowly, you'll get through it a lot easier than you think.

BTW, What are you selling the 13 vein for? ( no, I'm not looking to put in one of my 4L60's :smile: ) I have to use them in the late model 4L60E's. All the 13 vein system is for is to eliminate the pulses that the electronics are sensitive enough to read and then start reacting all goofy. Unfortunately, the more slots you put through the rotor to handle the added veins makes it A LOT more weak. They are fragile enough as it is. Never use a 13 vein rotor if you are building a 4L60 let alone and high performace one.

_________________
Brian Hartman
HHP Racing
303-649-1808
Please e-mail me if you have questions:
brianhartman@sprintmail.com
HHP_Racing@yahoo.com

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Brian Hartman on 2002-03-21 19:15 ]</font>

 

[Hu Ryde]

On 2002-03-21 16:07, Brian Hartman wrote: Jesse, you have done one tranny, and now you are an expert at what is good and what is not? Honestly? Come on, I was on the phone with you for over an hour telling you more information than you'll accumulate in years. I ask you this, If you really know want you are talking about and your opinion is so solid, then why did you choose to go with a 13 vein pump? :smile: I not trying to rag on you bro but you just have to know what you know and learn what you don't.

The word will be out. I'm sorry this got personal.

Jesse, you have done one tranny, and now you are an expert at what is good and what is not? Honestly? Come on.

How would anyone want help from such a awesome vendor if they get comments like these? I thought you were an ok guy, but...... Now we all see the real Hartman coming out.

Anyway, I'm going to move on and help people not cut them down. Like I posted earlier, if anyone needs free tranny mods or a parts list of what I have done and learned, let me know.

 

[Brian Hartman]

What? The real Hartman? You mean the one that helped you even though you weren't even my customer? Try calling up one of your recommended warehouses and ask about how to do things eventhough you didn't buy their stuff and see how they treat you. I have a lot of happy customers that know how good I am and how well I treat them. I might be a little edgy at times but it isn't like I don't like you or anything. If we were hanging out with a group of guy and this discussion went like this, you'd see their would be lot's of laughs and joking going on. Sure I would of made fun of you but in a funny way. Jesse, read what I said about the vendors on the list. I'm not saying it as a sales tactic, I'm saying it as a long time member of the list. I can't believe you are even saying I haven't treated you well.

 

[Hu Ryde]

I'm sorry but from my experiences and 3-4 other's since I posted all this have came up with the same conclusion I have. Ever since I told you that your $1,400 kit was too much you limited your help to me. You told me minor stuff. Nothing about drilling the plate to help increase pressure or boring the pump. I have no problem doing homework but I expected this up front from a all knowing SyTy god. All I ask is that you be fair in price and knowledge. Hopefully we all can get over this in one piece. Let's end on good terms!.... Buds?

 

[Brian Hartman]

Sure, no hard feelings. I would prefer being friends.

I believe I am fair with my prices. When you buy my kits, you are also buying my experience and help as well as the best parts you can get. I can match pretty much match anyone's price but I can't spend the time helping them. The bottom few kits are like what is available from other places and I have one that is priced low like the warehouses. I just never really offer it because I can't support it. I'm the only one that can help. If I had a scrub answering the phone at minimum wage, I'd sell them but those kits aren't really adequate. I work 20-22 hours a day helping my customers as it is. I am not a warehouse turning millions of parts with a minimum wage order taker filling orders. I design better ways to skin a cat. My instructions are different for different kits because what works in one, doesn't work in another due to the parts or the application in which they are used. I didn't type out a set of instruction because I didn't have a clue what you bought and were installing so my advice could actually of been a disservice to you. I once had a customer, and the old timers will remember this guy, Josh Branch <The Green Cucumber> and he didn't follow the instructions and it was a nightmare. So after that, I am really careful on what I say. I knew Blake was helping you and so I thought you had some of my methods available. So I thought I was being up front with the info you needed. I give advice and if someone asks if they should or shouldn't do something, I answer them. When you are in business, you have to be really careful. I wish it wasn't like that. I'd be on the list a lot more like I used to be. I lived on the list for years until I had to close down and lurk. I help lots of people everyday. But it is one on one. I have more control of the situation and can be a better service than just out mindlessly blathering about anything that is fun to talk about. Heck, I have lots of Syclones and Typhoons and I don't even get to enjoy them. I put maybe 25 miles a month on them combined. Do I envy you guys out racing your trucks and having fun? Heck yeah I do. I just dream of the day when I can do it but I don't imagine it will happen anytime soon. Man, I don't even have time to put on of my transmissions in my trucks. I start to build one and then someone needs one in a hurry and whamo there is goes and there my trucks sit with those crappy stock transmissions in there. You should see all the parts I have in my basement. I have the most radical stuff possible but they are nothing more than a collection of paperweights. I don't get to go out and have fun showboating my truck, stomping ricers into the ground. I get to take people downstairs and show them parts for the truck. Let me tell you it isn't anywhere near as fulfilling as going out and having fun in a Syclone or Typhoon. So as you can see I did help you more than any other business would of even given you the time of day.

I hope this explains everything and that you can see the whats and whys of the situation because I'm tired of typing and I have to call a lot of people back. Plus I don't want any hard feelings.

Take care.

 

[sy2185]

Stay down, Hartman. You're a good man. We'll meet in a few months when it's time for the 9/11,etc. and I look forward to it.
All I'll say is I've worked with a few tuners in the past on other projects and wouldn't dream of them helping me if I didn't at least buy parts. Most are only interested if they or their mechanic wrenches, labor is their cash cow. W/o installation you'd better have the part # before you get there.
Though trans parts can be had elsewhere I'm sure, it's your knowledge that people request. This is almost more important than the products. Giving that away could in no way benefit your buisiness, only the fellow SY/TYer who's down on cash.
I'd bet if you charged for the tips/tuning like others, trans prices would be lower. So if anybody gets huffy it should be the guy like me who'll prolly spend a grip on a good trans to help offset all the free tech classes to non-customers over the phone.
Jeremy

 

[Brian Hartman]

Thanx for the endorsement bro. I try so hard to help everyone and it is impossible. You should see my e-mail that I have yet to answer. I try to get them all but they come in faster than I can answer them. And I want to make sure they are answered thoroughly so sometimes they get passed until I can sit down and do them intelligently. So I have to apologize for my lag time on responses sometimes. When I sell kits, I pretty much drop everything when I get a call for help. And that is 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I know not everyone can afford going with the best stuff and I regret not being able to help them like I'd like. I still bend over backwards for people that aren't even my customers and tell them the best options they have if they can't do it or have the resources to do it. I don't want to be an ass to them and I am not unless it becomes disrespectful. I don't want to be put in that position. I know all to well how it feels to have something expensive on your truck blow up at the most inconvenient time let alone being in a financial bind, so I try to help as much as I can. I didn't get into this to make money. I got into this to help my SyTy family. All the money I make goes right back into the business to improve even more. If you don't believe me, you should stop by my house and we can BS and watch a movie or something...wait a minute, I don't have a couch... or a TV, VCR, DVD or anything. I basically moved into my house and bought a bed, even though I don't have time to use it that much :wink: , the rest of my money from my 2.5 full-time jobs went into tools and R&D. I don't even have a life now. My friends don't even ask me to go out with them because they know the answer, sorry guys, I have to work. So they just pop in here and again. So I never want to seem wound up, it's just that I get a little passionate when I get involved with something that I've dedicated my life to. Do you really think transmissions is what I wanted to do with my life? No, but I'm doing it now and steaming ahead 110%. Jesse and I talked a while back and he wanted to post some of the e-mails I wrote to help him on a website and I told him I'd do it if I could edit and if they were used in a context I agreed with. But I told him I'll be getting a website up here in the next month that will be very informative and articles written on safety so he thought it would be best to leave that to me and maybe just link of his site to mine. I wish I could do a lot more volume without sacrificing quality but those two things are usually polar opposites.

If I get a little gruff on this bbs, it isn't because I'm psychotic or anything, I'm just a bit maniacal when it comes to the ultimate in transmission and engine design and technology.

So with that said Jeremy, I thank you again and I promise you guys that I'm always looking for ways to streamline my stuff so I can be more effective. I am also always looking for the best quality at the best
price I can get and thus pass it on to you guys. 100% satifaction is what I shoot for so being a perfectionist, you can imagine how miserable this seem if they aren't perfect. How many happy perfectionist have you seen lately? Seems the successful people are the most wicked people you can imagine and their product is crap, but that is what sells. Do you notice how everything is disposable anymore? The nicest stuff is old stuff made a long time ago like a washing machine or a refrigeratorthat was built like a tank... Boy I'm off on a tangent...ok back out to the shop I go. I can't wait, nothing like the smell of solvent and BrakeKleen to remind you that you are slowly being poisoned. Life is grand :smile:

 

[ParTyBoy]

On 2002-03-21 19:52, Hu Ryde wrote:

On 2002-03-21 16:07, Brian Hartman wrote: Jesse, you have done one tranny, and now you are an expert at what is good and what is not? Honestly? Come on, I was on the phone with you for over an hour telling you more information than you'll accumulate in years. I ask you this, If you really know want you are talking about and your opinion is so solid, then why did you choose to go with a 13 vein pump? :smile: I not trying to rag on you bro but you just have to know what you know and learn what you don't.

The word will be out. I'm sorry this got personal.

Jesse, you have done one tranny, and now you are an expert at what is good and what is not? Honestly? Come on.

How would anyone want help from such a awesome vendor if they get comments like these? I thought you were an ok guy, but...... Now we all see the real Hartman coming out.

Anyway, I'm going to move on and help people not cut them down. Like I posted earlier, if anyone needs free tranny mods or a parts list of what I have done and learned, let me know.

Jesse you may be relatively new, but there's truth to be told in a statement "that it's better to listen & learn than to preach" .. Brian works long hours.. and has more cumulative knowledge in regards to transmissions I'd fare to say that the entire list combined.. This is his proffesion... He is a proffesional.. Yes his kits may be higher priced, but you get a proffesional product with lots of experience & development.. The result is a product you know "WILL" work for your application... When I say will I mean it's something that is specifically built for the driving conditions of our vehicles.. It takes the chance and risk out of purchasing an inferior or faulty product when someone else has learned through trial & error tests before you...I'm not trying to rant or pick a fight.. but brian's sacrificed a lot for a lot of people... and it's sad to see someone who is so new take stabs at him that hasn't been around the past 5-10 years to see what Brian has done....

_________________

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SainT JaGerMeisTer on 2002-03-22 08:47 ]</font>

 

[Hu Ryde]

Jesse you may be relatively new, but there's truth to be told in a statement "that it's better to listen & learn than to preach" .. Brian works long hours.. and has more cumulative knowledge in regards to transmissions I'd fare to say that the entire list combined.. This is his proffesion... He is a proffesional.. Yes his kits may be higher priced, but you get a proffesional product with lots of experience & development.. The result is a product you know "WILL" work for your application... When I say will I mean it's something that is specifically built for the driving conditions of our vehicles.. It takes the chance and risk out of purchasing an inferior or faulty product when someone else has learned through trial & error tests before you...I'm not trying to rant or pick a fight.. but brian's sacrificed a lot for a lot of people... and it's sad to see someone who is so new take stabs at him that hasn't been around the past 5-10 years to see what Brian has done....

One more time.

Anyway, I'm going to move on and help people not cut them down. Like I posted earlier, if anyone needs free tranny mods or a parts list of what I have done and learned, let me know.

 

[Hu Ryde]

Brian, sounds to me like you need time off. Do you want to live your life stuck in a hole? Do something for yourself sometime. Enjoy life.

 

[Mkid]

Hey Brian,

Thanks again man!! Its seems like just the other day when I was sitting in my garage ripping through my tranny and calling Brian like every hour for advice. When I look back...I'm not sure what happened but all I know is that my trans pulls like a MOFO now!!!

I'm no fool, when Brian/and a lot of others first told me his Trans are the top of the line I was skeptic...as anyone should be if he wants the truth...anyways I did my research only to figure out that his parts where top of the line....and it came down to trusting him. I wish all vendors could back up there products as much as Brian does!! Thanks dude!

Malik
90' Tyclone w/Hartmans stage IV & 9/11 TC