Update on 4L80E
- Thread starter mrsyclone
- Start date
myclone
Donating Member
JustDreamin said:
Gooberville translated is Roanoke, VA. South west/south central VA is what the locals call it.
Eds write up will prolly be the place to find out about stuff like trans crossmember placement and/or any trans tunnel mods. I havent read his write up in a while but it seems I remember that little if any tunnel mods are required and no engine movement was needed (theres really not room to move the engine anyways). Some drive shaft work was needed but shortening/lengthening drive shafts is pretty cheaply done by just about any competent driveline or spring shop (hell, even I can shorten a drive shaft in the garage and have been doing it for years).
ed hess said:
In a 2wd or off road type 4x4 you are correct but the problem is that the th400 and 80E dont have the same bolt pattern for the tail housing which means you cant use a xfer case adaptor for a th400 on a 80E. About the only thing in common between the two trans's is the spline count and size of the output shaft at the splined location (least in the grand scheme of things that is the point that sytyers are concerned with most).
turbodog
Donating Member
Oh, yeah..
and if the plan is to go with a straight viscous coupled TC, then this non-electronic 4L80 simplifies things further (although having electronically adjustable shift points probably makes the stand-alone controller and the 4L80E worth the price):
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L80E.htm
I have to admit, I'd still prefer to find an electronically shiftable TC solution, like the setup Waller has. The early Escalade TCs are listed as viscous coupled AND electrically shifted at drivetrain.com. Hmmmm..
and if the plan is to go with a straight viscous coupled TC, then this non-electronic 4L80 simplifies things further (although having electronically adjustable shift points probably makes the stand-alone controller and the 4L80E worth the price):
http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4L80E.htm
I have to admit, I'd still prefer to find an electronically shiftable TC solution, like the setup Waller has. The early Escalade TCs are listed as viscous coupled AND electrically shifted at drivetrain.com. Hmmmm..
'JustDreamin'
Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Hey Guys....
Myclone....I didn't ever hear Gooberville when I was down that way. Spend 4 years in Blacksburg (Bleaksburg in the winter) and 1.5 in Martinsville / Collinsville. As a side note, does the cop in Boones Mills still have a pursuit Camaro? He used to in 1993-1995.
TurboDog....I do think a non-electronic 4L80 would be cheaper and probably easier to put in.
Best I can figure you only have two real options as to transmission operation.
1.) Full manual with aftermarket valve body. Should always be in the gear you wanted it to be, but won't be an auto (meaning I'd have to teach the wife how to drive it). I also don't know how the shift quality would be. Obviously WOT shifts need to be hard and firm, but what about part throttle, just cruising around? I don't know how that'd be. But I do like the idea of the blasted tranny not downshifting when I don't want it to. I hate it when the 700R4 in my suburban unlocks and then downshifts when all you want to do is hold speed while towing the boat. Add power, TCC unlocks, have to add more power (because TCC unlocked) and then it D/S's.....ARGH...There are times I really want a manual tranny.
2.) Electronic with either factory computer (like the 6.5l diesel computer which is complete standalone unit) or an aftermarket computer. Probably more expensive (I figure $800 to $1200 for the aftermarket computer). For the factory computer, I don't know how you talk to it and re-program it (or what hardware you need to do it)
I don't really have any desire to use the electronic TC's. I don't think it'll have a significant performance advantage (I could be wrong). May have a slight fuel economy advantage (but unless you drop the front driveline out, you're still spinning it and its still causing drag). It certainly will be more expensive, and likely to be more difficult. But ultimately, I'm cheap. I don't see any reason to spend a bunch of money on something that won't run significantly better. I think I could put the cash somewhere else and be much better off....
Wrapping up my monolog with some questions:
1.) Is anybody looking to do this swap right now? I'm not. I'm trying to figure out my project before starting. But if somebody is looking to work on it, I'd be happy to help out where possible.
2.) Anybody interested in "riding herd" on this to keep everything straight, moving forward, and such?
'Dreamin'
Myclone....I didn't ever hear Gooberville when I was down that way. Spend 4 years in Blacksburg (Bleaksburg in the winter) and 1.5 in Martinsville / Collinsville. As a side note, does the cop in Boones Mills still have a pursuit Camaro? He used to in 1993-1995.
TurboDog....I do think a non-electronic 4L80 would be cheaper and probably easier to put in.
Best I can figure you only have two real options as to transmission operation.
1.) Full manual with aftermarket valve body. Should always be in the gear you wanted it to be, but won't be an auto (meaning I'd have to teach the wife how to drive it). I also don't know how the shift quality would be. Obviously WOT shifts need to be hard and firm, but what about part throttle, just cruising around? I don't know how that'd be. But I do like the idea of the blasted tranny not downshifting when I don't want it to. I hate it when the 700R4 in my suburban unlocks and then downshifts when all you want to do is hold speed while towing the boat. Add power, TCC unlocks, have to add more power (because TCC unlocked) and then it D/S's.....ARGH...There are times I really want a manual tranny.
2.) Electronic with either factory computer (like the 6.5l diesel computer which is complete standalone unit) or an aftermarket computer. Probably more expensive (I figure $800 to $1200 for the aftermarket computer). For the factory computer, I don't know how you talk to it and re-program it (or what hardware you need to do it)
I don't really have any desire to use the electronic TC's. I don't think it'll have a significant performance advantage (I could be wrong). May have a slight fuel economy advantage (but unless you drop the front driveline out, you're still spinning it and its still causing drag). It certainly will be more expensive, and likely to be more difficult. But ultimately, I'm cheap. I don't see any reason to spend a bunch of money on something that won't run significantly better. I think I could put the cash somewhere else and be much better off....
Wrapping up my monolog with some questions:
1.) Is anybody looking to do this swap right now? I'm not. I'm trying to figure out my project before starting. But if somebody is looking to work on it, I'd be happy to help out where possible.
2.) Anybody interested in "riding herd" on this to keep everything straight, moving forward, and such?
'Dreamin'
TurboManiacal
Donating Member
JustDreamin said:
This is getting off-tech but the answer to your question is no. He now has a new Pontiac GTO. The Camaro was sold on E-Bay.
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2747&page=1&pp=30&highlight=Boones+Mill
http://www.ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3086&highlight=Boones+Mill
http://www.syty.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35597&highlight=boones+mill
snufelupogus
New member
Re: Update on 4L80E
I blew my transfer case some how not too long and am looking for a replacement... after reading what was wrote up above and a couple suggestions in my other post HERE i see that i have a few possible options.
I dont do any off-roading, so the transfer case with the hi-lo option doesnt appeal to me, a full time AWD is what im after because i do autocross and some track events.
I see that the stock 4472 TC and the NV 149 out of the silverado/escalade seem to be my best options. I have around 350hp and 350lb-ft.
Id like peoples opinions on whether it would be wise to remain with the stock TC or start searching for the NV149 and mounting options?
Thanks :tup:
turbodog said:
I blew my transfer case some how not too long and am looking for a replacement... after reading what was wrote up above and a couple suggestions in my other post HERE i see that i have a few possible options.
I dont do any off-roading, so the transfer case with the hi-lo option doesnt appeal to me, a full time AWD is what im after because i do autocross and some track events.
I see that the stock 4472 TC and the NV 149 out of the silverado/escalade seem to be my best options. I have around 350hp and 350lb-ft.
Id like peoples opinions on whether it would be wise to remain with the stock TC or start searching for the NV149 and mounting options?
Thanks :tup:
Crimson93Ty
PITA new guy
Re: Update on 4L80E
Stock transfer case is rated at over 1400 foot pounds of torque. I don't think your 350 foot pounds is gonna hurt it. I did find out some information from the German manufacturer's website that the viscous couple is very temperature sensitive. Running it without a front propshaft and doing lots of burnouts without giving the viscous couple time to cool down ramps it to full "HUMP" and basically the fluid in the coupler solidifies(gels)and the VC blows apart and breaks things. I'm gonna put a cooler and electric pump on mine eventually. I definitely won't be running it without the front driveshaft in anymore. But that's just me. I'd say, get a new one and trade your old one in for the core fee. I think a new one is $750 or $850. You can find used ones for as low as $350. I don't see the point in getting a custom transfer case adaptor just to use the 149. By the time you paid for all of that, you'd be well over the cost of a newly rebuilt transfer case with a new VC in it. BTW, you probably wanted to start this in a new thread or at least find a transfer case thread to put this onto. 4L80E updates don't have much to do with trying to find a transfer case to bolt up to a stock 700r4. :2cents:
Stock transfer case is rated at over 1400 foot pounds of torque. I don't think your 350 foot pounds is gonna hurt it. I did find out some information from the German manufacturer's website that the viscous couple is very temperature sensitive. Running it without a front propshaft and doing lots of burnouts without giving the viscous couple time to cool down ramps it to full "HUMP" and basically the fluid in the coupler solidifies(gels)and the VC blows apart and breaks things. I'm gonna put a cooler and electric pump on mine eventually. I definitely won't be running it without the front driveshaft in anymore. But that's just me. I'd say, get a new one and trade your old one in for the core fee. I think a new one is $750 or $850. You can find used ones for as low as $350. I don't see the point in getting a custom transfer case adaptor just to use the 149. By the time you paid for all of that, you'd be well over the cost of a newly rebuilt transfer case with a new VC in it. BTW, you probably wanted to start this in a new thread or at least find a transfer case thread to put this onto. 4L80E updates don't have much to do with trying to find a transfer case to bolt up to a stock 700r4. :2cents:
Crimson93Ty
PITA new guy
Re: Update on 4L80E
So the number must be higher since Hess is running so much through his? That 1400 came from a post Tydriver made. It could be significantly higher. What is Ed Hess's dyno'd at? Use the formulas for torque multiplication and see what his is putting out and that's probably the true rating.
So the number must be higher since Hess is running so much through his? That 1400 came from a post Tydriver made. It could be significantly higher. What is Ed Hess's dyno'd at? Use the formulas for torque multiplication and see what his is putting out and that's probably the true rating.
'JustDreamin'
Dream: 6LV8 Turbo Bravada
Re: Update on 4L80E
I haven't seen anything resembling a "Factory" rating on the BW4472. Some of the current stuff from New Venture has torque ratings available, but that doesn't help significantly, now does it.
You guys are right about the tcase "seeing" alot of torque. I'd bet that tcase is rated a fair bit over 1400 ft-lbs. I'd guess somewhere around 2200 ft-lbs as a rated value.
Here's why. Stock turbo V6 is rated at ~360 ft-lbs (If I remember right). 700R4 1st gear is 3.06:1. Figure a 2:1 torque convertor mult ratio (at least at a dead stop) and you get (360) x (3.06) x (2.0) = 2200 ft-lbs.
And besides, this discussion is so far on "ratings" not actual capacity. I'd bet Ed Hess is pushing at least 3000 ft-lbs (my guess is 600 ft-lbs engine torque with 2.48:1 1st gear) and doesn't seem to be blowing up tcases weekly. I'm just guessing at how much power Ed is making, maybe he'll chime in with either a more realistic number or verify my guess.
'Dreamin'
My suggestion: find a good used tcase, freshen it up a bit, and slap it back in. No sense worrying about the tcase, since the tranny is the weak link.
I haven't seen anything resembling a "Factory" rating on the BW4472. Some of the current stuff from New Venture has torque ratings available, but that doesn't help significantly, now does it.
You guys are right about the tcase "seeing" alot of torque. I'd bet that tcase is rated a fair bit over 1400 ft-lbs. I'd guess somewhere around 2200 ft-lbs as a rated value.
Here's why. Stock turbo V6 is rated at ~360 ft-lbs (If I remember right). 700R4 1st gear is 3.06:1. Figure a 2:1 torque convertor mult ratio (at least at a dead stop) and you get (360) x (3.06) x (2.0) = 2200 ft-lbs.
And besides, this discussion is so far on "ratings" not actual capacity. I'd bet Ed Hess is pushing at least 3000 ft-lbs (my guess is 600 ft-lbs engine torque with 2.48:1 1st gear) and doesn't seem to be blowing up tcases weekly. I'm just guessing at how much power Ed is making, maybe he'll chime in with either a more realistic number or verify my guess.
'Dreamin'
My suggestion: find a good used tcase, freshen it up a bit, and slap it back in. No sense worrying about the tcase, since the tranny is the weak link.