TheObiJuan
Active member
ok so PT52 vs PT54. what is the AR difference, stall speed required , and power difference? anyone had a good experience with the pt54. any more lag than stock?
54 vs 52
- Thread starter TheObiJuan
- Start date
I don't think anyone can really comment on comparisons between the two turbos on a Syty, since I only know of a handful of people who have run them, and none of them have used BOTH.
One of McCoy's customer's trucks has gone 11 teens on a 54 at higher boost.
If your goals are mild, on stock motor, or mildly built motor, I'd say to stick with the 52. If your goals are mid/deep 11s, I'd say to consider a 53/54/63. If your goals are 10s, I say go with a 70-72. Use high efficiency exhaust housings, whatever your goals, PTE or good flowing 4 bolt Garret housings.
Any of the 50 series turbos will require a stall converter. 9-11 at 2800-3000 will work for a 51/52 IMO. If you go bigger, more stall will be required, as well as you should be running a built motor that has a cam requiring more stall (combination combination combintation). My Sy stalled to ~3500 rpm at 2-3psi. This was perfect for the 63 series turbo I had, the .82 AR exhaust, and the larger cam. Had more torque than I could use at the line.
With the right tuning a 51 will get you in the 11s on the stock motor, at 20psi or so, IMO.
One of McCoy's customer's trucks has gone 11 teens on a 54 at higher boost.
If your goals are mild, on stock motor, or mildly built motor, I'd say to stick with the 52. If your goals are mid/deep 11s, I'd say to consider a 53/54/63. If your goals are 10s, I say go with a 70-72. Use high efficiency exhaust housings, whatever your goals, PTE or good flowing 4 bolt Garret housings.
Any of the 50 series turbos will require a stall converter. 9-11 at 2800-3000 will work for a 51/52 IMO. If you go bigger, more stall will be required, as well as you should be running a built motor that has a cam requiring more stall (combination combination combintation). My Sy stalled to ~3500 rpm at 2-3psi. This was perfect for the 63 series turbo I had, the .82 AR exhaust, and the larger cam. Had more torque than I could use at the line.
With the right tuning a 51 will get you in the 11s on the stock motor, at 20psi or so, IMO.
TheObiJuan
Active member
so you think a 9/11 will hold up to a pt54? and i do plan on using a built motor, a custom motor from jerry. cant wait!!! hope by then all the kinks out of the 50# will be worked out. keep up the good work man!!
TheObiJuan
Active member
well thanks and congrats on that combo, i wish that i can get something like that soon.!!!
taken from mccoy's web page
Model Application Min Stall Max HP Price
PT51 High-10 Sec. 2800 585 $675.00
PT52 High-10 Sec. 2900 600 $675.00
PT53 Mid-10 Sec. 3000 610 $675.00
PT54 Mid-10 Sec. 3000 620 $675.00
T63E Mid-10 Sec. 3200 690 $960.00
T64E Mid-10 Sec. 3300 700 $960.00
TE63 4 Bolt Low-10 Sec. 3200 745 $1095.00
TE64 4 Bolt Low-10 Sec. 3300 755 $1095.00
PT68 4 Bolt High-9 Sec. 3400 795 $1095.00
PT70 Q Trim Mid-9 3600 830 $1,349.00
PT72 Q Trim Mid-9 3600 850 $1,595.00
PT74 Q Trim Low-9 3800 875 $1,595.00
PT76 Q Trim Low-9 3800 900 $1,795.00
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Model Application Min Stall Max HP Price
PT51 High-10 Sec. 2800 585 $675.00
PT52 High-10 Sec. 2900 600 $675.00
PT53 Mid-10 Sec. 3000 610 $675.00
PT54 Mid-10 Sec. 3000 620 $675.00
T63E Mid-10 Sec. 3200 690 $960.00
T64E Mid-10 Sec. 3300 700 $960.00
TE63 4 Bolt Low-10 Sec. 3200 745 $1095.00
TE64 4 Bolt Low-10 Sec. 3300 755 $1095.00
PT68 4 Bolt High-9 Sec. 3400 795 $1095.00
PT70 Q Trim Mid-9 3600 830 $1,349.00
PT72 Q Trim Mid-9 3600 850 $1,595.00
PT74 Q Trim Low-9 3800 875 $1,595.00
PT76 Q Trim Low-9 3800 900 $1,795.00
e
ghettosled
SYTY SUPERSTORE
Those are PTE specs.. I think your results to be alot different in a syty application. Buicks seem to go alot faster on smaller turbos.
nightdiver
Active member
Yeah i think so too . A 9 sec time with my T 68 !!!!!!!! it pulls hard , but not that much
ghettosled
SYTY SUPERSTORE
not only that, but the HP figures are off too. Probably different in buicks though.
thats probably why everyone screams when turbo dealers try and put HP, and stall speeds on turbos. i think they are bogus too, but its the best information we have available from turbo dealers that dont publish compressor maps.
i would think that a larger displacement motor would need a lower stall speed. but who knows? for example, i think i could easily spool my PT52 at 2,600-2,700rpm. seems like stall speed would also be relative to cam and head selection. hmmm.......
point is im sure there are a lot of things to consider, but people uninterested in really learning about turbos are always asking "what size turbo do i need" and "how much horse power does that make" so we get cheesy tables of info like this one. hahaha guess in reality we screw ourselves.
e
i would think that a larger displacement motor would need a lower stall speed. but who knows? for example, i think i could easily spool my PT52 at 2,600-2,700rpm. seems like stall speed would also be relative to cam and head selection. hmmm.......
point is im sure there are a lot of things to consider, but people uninterested in really learning about turbos are always asking "what size turbo do i need" and "how much horse power does that make" so we get cheesy tables of info like this one. hahaha guess in reality we screw ourselves.
e
ghettosled
SYTY SUPERSTORE
Thats why it helps to buy the turbos, not from the manufactors direct, but from a vendor(whoever your choice) who knows sytys and has proven results.
I can only speak for myself, but I have used alot of the turbo combinations out there. I try to keep in touch with my customers to see how fast they are going on a particular turbo. If they have dyno'd it, I like to know how much power it made. Using this real world data, I can usually get someone the right turbo first time out. I know exactly what it is like to be sold a turbo that is really too small, only to upgrade several more times in the near future.
There are always going to be people who go super fast on small turbos. BG's 11.01 on a TE63. Tom F's 9.84 on a T66. But look at most of the people running 10.9s-11.0s. All to most have T72s (21-25psi). Theoretically you should be able to make alot more power with a 72, and theoretically you should ET alot better also. that's not always the case.
I can only speak for myself, but I have used alot of the turbo combinations out there. I try to keep in touch with my customers to see how fast they are going on a particular turbo. If they have dyno'd it, I like to know how much power it made. Using this real world data, I can usually get someone the right turbo first time out. I know exactly what it is like to be sold a turbo that is really too small, only to upgrade several more times in the near future.
There are always going to be people who go super fast on small turbos. BG's 11.01 on a TE63. Tom F's 9.84 on a T66. But look at most of the people running 10.9s-11.0s. All to most have T72s (21-25psi). Theoretically you should be able to make alot more power with a 72, and theoretically you should ET alot better also. that's not always the case.
What MIke said 
You have to remember that with the Buicks, they tend to run a LOT more boost than Syty guys. 25-30psi is high boost to them, 20psi is high boost to us. So the HP estimates will be a bit higher than anyone running lower boost... as that is a typical race boost setting for an all out Buick. Also, the ET estimates are made on a vehicle that typically turns 1.4-1.5 60' times when at the 9-10 second level. A 10 second AWD Syty will turn 1.5-1.6 60s, slowing the ET by almost 2 tenths for the same HP level. So IMO, the turbos can put out that ET & hp, it's just that you have to turn some excellent 60's and crank the boost up
Just have to take all of that into consideration. I've found that the stall converter stuff is pretty similar from Syty's to Buicks. I thought Opie's PTE44 setup would be livable on a stock converter, but not fast spooling. We had no problem building boost with it on the line. Many Buick guys using the PTE 3 bolt housing on a 44 are having the same opinion.
You have to remember that with the Buicks, they tend to run a LOT more boost than Syty guys. 25-30psi is high boost to them, 20psi is high boost to us. So the HP estimates will be a bit higher than anyone running lower boost... as that is a typical race boost setting for an all out Buick. Also, the ET estimates are made on a vehicle that typically turns 1.4-1.5 60' times when at the 9-10 second level. A 10 second AWD Syty will turn 1.5-1.6 60s, slowing the ET by almost 2 tenths for the same HP level. So IMO, the turbos can put out that ET & hp, it's just that you have to turn some excellent 60's and crank the boost up
Just have to take all of that into consideration. I've found that the stall converter stuff is pretty similar from Syty's to Buicks. I thought Opie's PTE44 setup would be livable on a stock converter, but not fast spooling. We had no problem building boost with it on the line. Many Buick guys using the PTE 3 bolt housing on a 44 are having the same opinion.
ghettosled
SYTY SUPERSTORE
we can make the same power if not more at a given rpm/boost but what I was trying to say before is that most syty guys dont want to run 23+psi, so I always have to sell em bigger turbos so they can get the ET they want.
Plus our 60fts will never be as good, our aerodynamics suck, and the drag of the awd kills us. therefore the buicks have the edge at the track.
Plus our 60fts will never be as good, our aerodynamics suck, and the drag of the awd kills us. therefore the buicks have the edge at the track.
i think that in general the limited numbers of our trucks keep us at a slight disadvantage. seems like we dont have well documented info to go on. that chart is based on buicks. im sure there are enough differences in our motors to where that chart doesnt mean a whole lot.
seems like with the sy/ty's, the larger turbos can be used with a mild build. and yes i agree about the times in respect to the turbo sizing. even if it is possible to run 10sec times with a PT52, i doubt at that level if it would be very efficient. i talked to PTE and to jerry mccoy before deciding what size turbo to buy, and i think i still ended up a little small. im sure to a buick a 52 is considered large when it can propel a buick to a 10second timeslip. if i had it to do over, id get a PT54, or a 63. dont get me wrong, the 52 makes a wonderful street car, with reasonably quick spool, even on a stock converter, (not on the line) but its probably not what id recommend for someone wanting to run good track times with a built motor. the money has been spent and i dont think PTE will just take the turbo back. they will upgrade it for more cash, but if people talk about their set ups and what kind of times they are running, i think we will end up with a good idea of what size turbo we need before we buy it and try it out.
having said that......
in my "OPPINION" for good track times.....
a PT51 or PT52 on a mostly stock motor, and a PT54 or 63 for a motor with ported L35's or mild vortecs. but then again, we all know what oppinions are like. just throwin it out there.
e
seems like with the sy/ty's, the larger turbos can be used with a mild build. and yes i agree about the times in respect to the turbo sizing. even if it is possible to run 10sec times with a PT52, i doubt at that level if it would be very efficient. i talked to PTE and to jerry mccoy before deciding what size turbo to buy, and i think i still ended up a little small. im sure to a buick a 52 is considered large when it can propel a buick to a 10second timeslip. if i had it to do over, id get a PT54, or a 63. dont get me wrong, the 52 makes a wonderful street car, with reasonably quick spool, even on a stock converter, (not on the line) but its probably not what id recommend for someone wanting to run good track times with a built motor. the money has been spent and i dont think PTE will just take the turbo back. they will upgrade it for more cash, but if people talk about their set ups and what kind of times they are running, i think we will end up with a good idea of what size turbo we need before we buy it and try it out.
having said that......
in my "OPPINION" for good track times.....
a PT51 or PT52 on a mostly stock motor, and a PT54 or 63 for a motor with ported L35's or mild vortecs. but then again, we all know what oppinions are like. just throwin it out there.
e
TheObiJuan
Active member
thanks E, that was what i have been looking for. so the 52 is good and all, but not with what i am looking for. it is like a 650 carb, i need like a 750 double pumper...a 54 or 63. how much stall is needed and turbo lag is there with a 63? i plan on having a built motor with plenty of boost. no more than 28 though.